Can The Protagoras: Can Virtue Be Taught?
Can virtue be taught? This is the main question discussed and argued over by Plato in the Protagoras and in the last section of the Meno. In these readings Plato gives different arguments that favor both sides positively and negatively. In the evidence I found in analyzing the Protagoras and the end of the Meno one thing was clear. The answer to this question according to the arguments seen in the readings tended to lean towards the negative. By negative I mean that Plato seems to believe that virtue cannot be taught. At least, not in the way this question was worded. I personally believe that virtue can be taught to an extent and that we should be asking more questions like can virtue be learned? In the Protagoras reading, Socrates tells a story about his
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conversation with Protagoras, a famous Sophist from Athens.
The main topic of discussion in this reading was virtue. Protagoras claims that he can make Hippocrates a better man every day if he becomes his apprentice. Socrates questions this statement by asking him how? Protagoras answers by saying that he can teach Hippocrates good judgment in both personal and civic affairs. He is stating that he can teach a man to be virtuous. Socrates doesn’t believe that this is possible as he starts questioning him. “The truth is, Protagoras, I have never thought that could be taught, but when you say it can be, I cant very well doubt it.” (Protagoras 319b) This is when Socrates question arises can virtue be taught? Socrates argues that virtue is not something that is taught as he explained that Athens allows all citizens to participate in political decisions thus implying that the virtue is not a skill that is learned like shipbuilding or construction. He reasons that nobody will blast anyone in citizens participating in assembly, as he believes that people think that virtue can’t be taught like shipbuilding. Socrates believes that people can’t transmit to other “virtues that they
possess.” (Protagoras 319e) Socrates makes a good first argument though I believe here he is asking another question already that is can virtues be transmitted. Socrates goes further noting that virtuous citizens are “unable to transmit this excellence of theirs to others.” (Protagoras 319e) Transmit and taught are two very different words. He keeps using this argument by using the example of Pericles a great virtuous man who wasn’t able to transmit his virtues to his children even though he gave them everything. Protagoras rebukes this by stating that Zeus dispensed the notions of respect and justice to all people and this is the reason why Athenian assembly doesn’t question people’s virtuous ability. This is a weak argument as he is using deities to rebuke an example that had more concrete evidence that was more philosophical. This argument doesn’t even actually answer the question if virtue can be taught as it just states that all humans are born to be virtuous. In Protagoras arguments he never truly argued that he could teach virtue but argued that Greek society is placed thinking that virtue can be taught.
Socrates is making his argument say that virtue is neither teachable nor learnable. I don’t agree with the second part of the argument, as I believe humans in general learn how to do everything. In my thinking virtue may not be able to be taught or in actuality transmitted but it can be learned. If you think about yourself you have grown up and learned throughout the years what is right and wrong. How? Easy through life and experiences. I can for a fact say I know more about virtue today than I did as a new born. Again we go back to whether virtue can be taught. It can through life and experience I’ve learned what is good and bad. Though, more importantly it is through my mistakes where I learn to use virtue. This is what Socrates supposedly believes is not possible. Going back to when Pericles and his son are brought up sure he did not transmit his virtues though we must remember his son is much younger and less inexperienced than him. Though, the way I was raised my parents played a huge part in showing me the difference of right and wrong. They taught me virtue but I learned the ability of virtue through my mistakes as a child. I was given the tools to become a virtuous man. In the discussion Socrates brought the idea that if all the parents in Athens taught all their children what virtue is not everyone would have the same ability. The parents of these young children can only give the children the tools and knowledge to become a possible good citizen. Thus, in these arguments in the Protagoras I deduced that a person could teach virtue to an extent but not to the extent where people had the ability to act virtuous. People could only be taught what is good or bad. In the end only the person makes those decisions no one else. Virtue can only be truly learned through life and experience. It is through these experiences that people will make the decisions to be virtuous. In the second reading the end of the Meno, Socrates and Meno go back to the original argument whether or not virtue is taught, learned through practice, or in people’s natures. It is in this moment the question is not whether virtue can be taught but now it has expanded to these three options. Socrates and Meno tackle this new question by means of hypothesis. Hypothesis is where one proposes a possible answer to the problem and after research and looking more into the problem the true answer can be found in the process. The first hypothesis is that if virtue is a type of knowledge it can be taught and if it is not then it cannot be taught. The second hypothesis is if there is anything good that is not knowledge then it is possible virtue is not knowledge and thus can’t be taught. (Meno 87e) Socrates and Meno deduce that virtue can be something that is good and if something is good than it is beneficial. Though, the question is whether or not something good can be harmful. We learn that virtue is beneficial and wisdom is beneficial. Virtue is wisdom. “In a word, then, all of the soul’s undertakings and acts of endurance, when guided by wisdom, end in happiness, when by folly, in the opposite.” (Meno 88c) Without any understanding or wisdom actions can be foolish and thus harmful. Thus, we learned that good men are not good in nature. This is where I argue that Socrates is correct here, as I believe that when we are newborns we don’t know what is good or bad. We learn these things through our surroundings. If we lived in a society where death was not feared our views on death, murder, and suicide would be different. It is our society we live in that shapes how we see the world and decide what is good or bad. Virtue is not given to us through nature.
Socrates argues that we can’t be taught virtue do to the lack of teacher and learners. Anytus joins in the conversation and believes a good man could be a good teacher of virtue. This argument is quickly rebuked when Socrates asks then whether these good men have been good teachers of virtue. He backs up his argument by bringing up examples of the noblest men in Athens who weren’t able to transmit their good virtues to their children. (Meno 94c) Socrates then tells Anytus if they can’t teach well then who can. In my opinion, we do have teachers they are just not people. The teachers are life and experiences as I stated before. I believe virtue can be taught to an extent but without life and experience there will be no mistakes to learn from and thus not have an opportunity to gain the ability of virtue. By the end of the Meno we learn through Socrates and Meno’s conversation that virtue can’t be taught or isn’t given in nature. We thus come along a new question at the conclusion then how do men become virtuous.
How do men become virtuous? If we have deduced that it can’t just be taught and that we are not born with virtue then what do we have? What we have learned through these readings and analyzing them is that even though we didn’t arrive to a clear answer I believe we got closer to the answer. This part of Plato’s philosophy its not necessarily finding the answer to life’s questions but getting to the basics and trying to get closer to the answer. Looking at the original question of whether virtue can be taught I can reply that it can be taught to a point. This is done by teaching people what virtuous acts and characteristics are. I believe that parents and elders can be an important part of a person’s journey to get the ability of virtue. Socrates main argument in both readings is that virtue cannot be taught because there are no teachers. Though, I feel Socrates would agree that virtue can be learned as through his arguments we deduced how people didn’t’ get virtue. If the question is reworded to can virtue be learned? I feel this question changes the thinking of how men achieve virtue. In asking whether virtue can be taught implies that there must be a teacher and a student. While, asking if virtue can be learned shows that there only must be a student. This question brings the thought that maybe a student can learn virtue from life or experience. In conclusion, virtue can’t be taught but I believe it can be learned. I’ve learned in my own personal life that I don’t need someone to teach me to learn as I have learned many things about life and virtue through my experiences. I believe in the saying that you learn more out the classroom. It is through mistakes in life that we learn what is good and bad. We try to use our experiences to become better people. It is through my mistakes in my young life that help me make better virtuous decisions in the future. Every single experience I have had has taught me what right and wrong is though it is only myself that can choose whether or not to act virtuous. Virtue is something that can be learned but maybe not taught.
conversation with Protagoras, a famous Sophist from Athens.
The main topic of discussion in this reading was virtue. Protagoras claims that he can make Hippocrates a better man every day if he becomes his apprentice. Socrates questions this statement by asking him how? Protagoras answers by saying that he can teach Hippocrates good judgment in both personal and civic affairs. He is stating that he can teach a man to be virtuous. Socrates doesn’t believe that this is possible as he starts questioning him. “The truth is, Protagoras, I have never thought that could be taught, but when you say it can be, I cant very well doubt it.” (Protagoras 319b) This is when Socrates question arises can virtue be taught? Socrates argues that virtue is not something that is taught as he explained that Athens allows all citizens to participate in political decisions thus implying that the virtue is not a skill that is learned like shipbuilding or construction. He reasons that nobody will blast anyone in citizens participating in assembly, as he believes that people think that virtue can’t be taught like shipbuilding. Socrates believes that people can’t transmit to other “virtues that they
possess.” (Protagoras 319e) Socrates makes a good first argument though I believe here he is asking another question already that is can virtues be transmitted. Socrates goes further noting that virtuous citizens are “unable to transmit this excellence of theirs to others.” (Protagoras 319e) Transmit and taught are two very different words. He keeps using this argument by using the example of Pericles a great virtuous man who wasn’t able to transmit his virtues to his children even though he gave them everything. Protagoras rebukes this by stating that Zeus dispensed the notions of respect and justice to all people and this is the reason why Athenian assembly doesn’t question people’s virtuous ability. This is a weak argument as he is using deities to rebuke an example that had more concrete evidence that was more philosophical. This argument doesn’t even actually answer the question if virtue can be taught as it just states that all humans are born to be virtuous. In Protagoras arguments he never truly argued that he could teach virtue but argued that Greek society is placed thinking that virtue can be taught.
Socrates is making his argument say that virtue is neither teachable nor learnable. I don’t agree with the second part of the argument, as I believe humans in general learn how to do everything. In my thinking virtue may not be able to be taught or in actuality transmitted but it can be learned. If you think about yourself you have grown up and learned throughout the years what is right and wrong. How? Easy through life and experiences. I can for a fact say I know more about virtue today than I did as a new born. Again we go back to whether virtue can be taught. It can through life and experience I’ve learned what is good and bad. Though, more importantly it is through my mistakes where I learn to use virtue. This is what Socrates supposedly believes is not possible. Going back to when Pericles and his son are brought up sure he did not transmit his virtues though we must remember his son is much younger and less inexperienced than him. Though, the way I was raised my parents played a huge part in showing me the difference of right and wrong. They taught me virtue but I learned the ability of virtue through my mistakes as a child. I was given the tools to become a virtuous man. In the discussion Socrates brought the idea that if all the parents in Athens taught all their children what virtue is not everyone would have the same ability. The parents of these young children can only give the children the tools and knowledge to become a possible good citizen. Thus, in these arguments in the Protagoras I deduced that a person could teach virtue to an extent but not to the extent where people had the ability to act virtuous. People could only be taught what is good or bad. In the end only the person makes those decisions no one else. Virtue can only be truly learned through life and experience. It is through these experiences that people will make the decisions to be virtuous. In the second reading the end of the Meno, Socrates and Meno go back to the original argument whether or not virtue is taught, learned through practice, or in people’s natures. It is in this moment the question is not whether virtue can be taught but now it has expanded to these three options. Socrates and Meno tackle this new question by means of hypothesis. Hypothesis is where one proposes a possible answer to the problem and after research and looking more into the problem the true answer can be found in the process. The first hypothesis is that if virtue is a type of knowledge it can be taught and if it is not then it cannot be taught. The second hypothesis is if there is anything good that is not knowledge then it is possible virtue is not knowledge and thus can’t be taught. (Meno 87e) Socrates and Meno deduce that virtue can be something that is good and if something is good than it is beneficial. Though, the question is whether or not something good can be harmful. We learn that virtue is beneficial and wisdom is beneficial. Virtue is wisdom. “In a word, then, all of the soul’s undertakings and acts of endurance, when guided by wisdom, end in happiness, when by folly, in the opposite.” (Meno 88c) Without any understanding or wisdom actions can be foolish and thus harmful. Thus, we learned that good men are not good in nature. This is where I argue that Socrates is correct here, as I believe that when we are newborns we don’t know what is good or bad. We learn these things through our surroundings. If we lived in a society where death was not feared our views on death, murder, and suicide would be different. It is our society we live in that shapes how we see the world and decide what is good or bad. Virtue is not given to us through nature.
Socrates argues that we can’t be taught virtue do to the lack of teacher and learners. Anytus joins in the conversation and believes a good man could be a good teacher of virtue. This argument is quickly rebuked when Socrates asks then whether these good men have been good teachers of virtue. He backs up his argument by bringing up examples of the noblest men in Athens who weren’t able to transmit their good virtues to their children. (Meno 94c) Socrates then tells Anytus if they can’t teach well then who can. In my opinion, we do have teachers they are just not people. The teachers are life and experiences as I stated before. I believe virtue can be taught to an extent but without life and experience there will be no mistakes to learn from and thus not have an opportunity to gain the ability of virtue. By the end of the Meno we learn through Socrates and Meno’s conversation that virtue can’t be taught or isn’t given in nature. We thus come along a new question at the conclusion then how do men become virtuous.
How do men become virtuous? If we have deduced that it can’t just be taught and that we are not born with virtue then what do we have? What we have learned through these readings and analyzing them is that even though we didn’t arrive to a clear answer I believe we got closer to the answer. This part of Plato’s philosophy its not necessarily finding the answer to life’s questions but getting to the basics and trying to get closer to the answer. Looking at the original question of whether virtue can be taught I can reply that it can be taught to a point. This is done by teaching people what virtuous acts and characteristics are. I believe that parents and elders can be an important part of a person’s journey to get the ability of virtue. Socrates main argument in both readings is that virtue cannot be taught because there are no teachers. Though, I feel Socrates would agree that virtue can be learned as through his arguments we deduced how people didn’t’ get virtue. If the question is reworded to can virtue be learned? I feel this question changes the thinking of how men achieve virtue. In asking whether virtue can be taught implies that there must be a teacher and a student. While, asking if virtue can be learned shows that there only must be a student. This question brings the thought that maybe a student can learn virtue from life or experience. In conclusion, virtue can’t be taught but I believe it can be learned. I’ve learned in my own personal life that I don’t need someone to teach me to learn as I have learned many things about life and virtue through my experiences. I believe in the saying that you learn more out the classroom. It is through mistakes in life that we learn what is good and bad. We try to use our experiences to become better people. It is through my mistakes in my young life that help me make better virtuous decisions in the future. Every single experience I have had has taught me what right and wrong is though it is only myself that can choose whether or not to act virtuous. Virtue is something that can be learned but maybe not taught.