Preview

Thrasymachus Arguments

Good Essays
Open Document
Open Document
538 Words
Grammar
Grammar
Plagiarism
Plagiarism
Writing
Writing
Score
Score
Thrasymachus Arguments
I believe that after thinking hard about the arguments I could say that Socrates has won. When I say the word “won” I use it loosely because in all reality it was hard for me to agree with Thrasymachus. As hard as it was it to agree with the one it was also hard to agree with Socrates because he really doesn’t give the strongest arguments against Thrasymachus claim. He also never really gives his opinion or definition on what he thinks justice is. The first reason why I would say Socrates won is because I feel like Thrasymachus definition is too broad I also believe that there is no just not one definition which is the advantage of the stronger. If justice meant the advantage of the stronger than when thinking about justice in the world now it would literally make no sense. The reason why I feel the need to connect the times is because now in the 21st century justice means a lot of different things. In the past, during the times the book took place in things were a lot different. …show more content…
He tries to hear him out about why he thinks that way but for some reason he just could not understand him. Throughout the book Socrates and Thrasymachus goes through trying to answer the questions that comes up. Earlier in this essay I mentioned the second question that came up about an unjust man. Socrates wanted Thrasymachus to explain exactly why he felt the way he felt about defining justice so he could eventually make his claim against him. Although it was tough for me to take a stand because the arguments on neither side were a strong as they could have been. I think it is safer for me to say Socrates has won the argument because it is tough to agree with Thrasymachus. I do agree with the claims Socrates made about justice being a virtue of the

You May Also Find These Documents Helpful

  • Good Essays

    One conversation between the parties was that of how a truly just state would look like and Socrates answers by declaring that a state might find justice when the overall happiness of the state has priority of desire to ones selfish ambitions. Socrates also says in reason people want to do what their desire bids them achieve and be trained in such a way that they would not care about anything but what their position in that society would have them do (The Republic, 376c-377e). This leads on to Socrates being asked to describe in detail how the laws of such a state would be where justice is to be found. Socrates says that for him to explain such a place to them would cause such humor to the group because his ideas are quite contrary to the ideas of people in the society in which they live(The Republic 450d-452e). He explains that three ideas that would push could be implemented that could make up a society that may contain justice. One is the common education of men and women another is women and children held in common the third is the idea that philosophers should rule as kings.…

    • 1033 Words
    • 5 Pages
    Good Essays
  • Good Essays

    Gorgias had been arguing that rhetoric was almost synonymous with power, as a rhetor can convince anyone to do anything. This, to Gorgias and Polus, is true power and will lead to one’s happiness. However, from the measly two pages or so of argument, Socrates is able to prove sound doubt as to whether this is true or not. This is all to back up Socrates’ earlier claim that “both rhetors and tyrants have the smallest power in the cities” (466d4-5). By using the argument of justice, Socrates is able to prove that doing what is unjust is not good for anyone, especially the person committing the injustices.…

    • 1439 Words
    • 6 Pages
    Good Essays
  • Powerful Essays

    Let us map out Thrasymachus' first presentation of justice. Thrasymachus argues in 338e that "… each ruling group sets down laws for its own advantage… everywhere justice is the same thing, the advantage of the stronger." Thrasymachus seems to conclude that…

    • 1831 Words
    • 8 Pages
    Powerful Essays
  • Good Essays

    King states that “An unjust law is a code that a majority inflicts on a minority that is not binding on itself,” which in Socrates case is also true for the state is persecuting a small group of like-minded individuals. On the other hand, Socrates claims “…the majority could inflict the greatest evils, for they would then be capable of the greatest good… but they cannot do either,” which contradicts King’s stance of power/ structure of the majority. It can also be said that Socrates believes if one fails to argue their perspective on a matter they should stop fighting and accept their punishment/ fate while King upheld the ideal that if he fails in arguing the point to the opposing side then he should continue to debate the issue until it is recognized. In Kings interpretation/explanation of a nonviolent campaign he says that “direct action,” is necessary but Socrates does not hold this to be true since he believes he should not take action against the majority. After he utilizes the first three steps he neglects to make use of the forth and that is what makes their theories…

    • 497 Words
    • 2 Pages
    Good Essays
  • Good Essays

    The Republic Study Guide

    • 2098 Words
    • 8 Pages

    - He makes Thrasymachus admit that the view he is advancing promotes injustice as a virtue. In this view, life is seen as a continual competition to get more (more money, more power, etc.), and whoever is most successful in the competition has the…

    • 2098 Words
    • 8 Pages
    Good Essays
  • Good Essays

    Therefore, for Socrates, no one would choose to do injustice since no one would choose what is more painful and bad. However, according to Vlastos, there is no suggestion here that the conclusion represents one of Polus’ standing convictions. Since the conclusion does not follow from anything Polus had said so far in this discussion, Socrates ‘mounts the above epagoge to win Polus’ acceptance of conclusion on the spot’. For Vlastos, Polus can reject premise 4 when Socrates tries to apply pleasure and benefit to laws and practices; and if Polus has sensed the shift to these more abstract objects, no less than that of bodies, colours, shapes, and sounds, the pleasure to the actual or ideal beholder is what accounts for admirability, he would have stymied Socrates. And it is true that it would be flawed to compare the more abstract things like laws and practices to bodies, colours, shapes and sounds. Therefore, Socrates refutation is not sound, as one of the premises can be…

    • 634 Words
    • 3 Pages
    Good Essays
  • Good Essays

    This paper argues that Socrates does not successfully refute Thrasymachus’s argument about justice in The Republic. In Book I, Socrates attempts to refute Thrasymachus point about the craftsmen analogy in regards to Thrasymachus’s argument. Socrates argues that every craft seeks the advantage of what it rules over and not its own advantage. (342c) He further goes into this idea of how competition doesn’t exist between people in the same craft.…

    • 569 Words
    • 3 Pages
    Good Essays
  • Good Essays

    Socrates meets with some of his friends and begins discussing the meaning of justice and whether the just life is better than the unjust life. First, they contemplate the meaning of justice. Cephalus stated that justice is as simple as telling the truth and returning what you receive, Polemarchus stated that justice is giving each his due, and Thrasymachus stated that justice is the advantage of the stronger. Socrates proves each of them wrong and embarks on a discussion to find out what true justice is, and to find out whether the just man is truly happier than the unjust man, or vice versa.…

    • 627 Words
    • 3 Pages
    Good Essays
  • Powerful Essays

    Socrate's Conviction

    • 1666 Words
    • 7 Pages

    [ 11 ]. Pomeroy, Sarah B. "The Trial of Socrates(399 B.C.)." Ancient Greece: A Political, Social, and Cultural History. New York: Oxford UP, 1999. 360-64. Print.…

    • 1666 Words
    • 7 Pages
    Powerful Essays
  • Satisfactory Essays

    Thrasybulus meant to convey by cutting down the tallest ears of wheat that it would interpret that by cutting the wheat, it would represent eliminating the people who cause the most threat when challenging him. Thrasybulus continued to ask repeatedly the same question. As the man, would not answer, he continued to cut the crop until eventually there was nothing left. He cut the most rich and precise crop on the farm. When the oligarchy formed in the Greek States, kings and rulers lost all power and disappeared within the city states. Thrasybulus was portraying what it was like to have everything stripped from the kings. All power to them was erased and moved to one single person. In this pantheon of greatness, Thrasybulus son of Lycus, holds…

    • 229 Words
    • 1 Page
    Satisfactory Essays
  • Good Essays

    In order to reconcile these two seemingly contradictory claims, we must first understand who, according to Socrates, can be considered a true champion of justice, and what he considers to be ‘the true art of politics’.…

    • 698 Words
    • 3 Pages
    Good Essays
  • Good Essays

    What Was Socrates Failure

    • 1008 Words
    • 5 Pages

    In producing a counter argument to Thrasymachus' claim that justice is the advantage of the stronger, Socrates bases his argument enourmously on sentimentality and prejudice. He assumes that the virtues which are supposedly functioning in the realm of ideas can also work propably in the World. For example, in Socrates' view, a doctor does not seek his own advantage, but the advantage of his patients. Yet, this view reflects the perfect ideal of a doctor in Socrates' belief of ideas in a dream world. With a modern perspective, one can fairly see that Socrates' refutation has some complexities which clash severely with the real experiences of the Ancient Greek. Socrates' image of the doctor ignores the inherent human desire…

    • 1008 Words
    • 5 Pages
    Good Essays
  • Good Essays

    Socrates was a man of distinction and a man with strong ideas on how to make a more perfect society. Although a lot of his ideas conflict with his ability to be just or unjust it does not in his mind. Being just or unjust is a major topic in the book and there are many different ways of being both. Socrates used the terms, not necessarily the way we would normally use the term today, but parts of his depiction made sense. He said a lot of different things could be considered unjust. For example not doing what you were Destined to do or what you are best at is considered unjust in his mind.…

    • 835 Words
    • 4 Pages
    Good Essays
  • Good Essays

    When beginning a discussion, it helps to be prepared, to know both sides of the argument especially the side you are arguing because it can be hard to see where the debate will lead. Thrasymachus falls into this situation as he tries to make an argument but ends up unable to see where the discussion is being lead, this causes him to push examples without fully examining all the areas of weakness in his arguments, which leads to his failure. Justice is usually linked with people who are just, but by disconnecting them Thrasymachus is able to form an argument that examines justice with a darker connotation. Socrates holds more hopeful associations and supports the benefits of justice consistently through his argument. With his skill and strategy,…

    • 1530 Words
    • 7 Pages
    Good Essays
  • Better Essays

    Socrates Unjust

    • 551 Words
    • 3 Pages

    This establishes that whether or not Socrates originally believes his punishment is right, by staying in Athens his entire life, he made a commitment to follow the law-being just-therefore, if he is accused of breaking the law and is convicted by the courts of Athens, which represent the law, then he must complete his sentence, or else he is only becoming more unjust. Socrates later decides that although he could escape, it is better to try and do the right thing, despite having done unjust things in the past, and ultimately decides to carry out his punishment. This passage also further examines the gray area within the idea of just and unjust by saying that following the laws is just; however, the people of the court who determine which acts are within the bounds the laws and which acts are not, are also biased according to their own personal perceptions, meaning no human truly knows the intransigent definitions of what is just and what is unjust.…

    • 551 Words
    • 3 Pages
    Better Essays